Welcome And Kolbe Basics

David Kolbe 0:00

So the Do More More Naturally concept is when you work with your strengths rather than against them, you can accomplish more and use less energy to get there.

Joshua Schmidt 0:13

We are live. You're listening to the audit presented by IT Audit Labs. I'm your co-host and producer, Joshua Schmidt. Today we have Jen Lotzi from Sip Cyber and from IT Audit Labs here in the studio. And the usual suspects, Nick Mellum, coming from Texas, and Eric Brown, managing director. Today our guest is David Kobe from Kobe Corp. We have all recently taken the Kobe Index, and so we all have put our numbers in our handles here today for David's pleasure. And um we're going to turn it over to David. David, thanks for joining the show today.

David Kolbe 0:44

It's great to be here. Thanks for having me on.

Eric Brown 0:46

I'm really looking forward to it. There might be people listening that haven't um experienced Colby firsthand. Do you want to paraphrase what a little bit about what Colby is?

David Kolbe 0:57

Yeah, so what we measure is different than what other personal assessments, you know, psychological tests or personality tests measure. Colby measures the instinctive way people take action. So it's not about how you think or feel. So the thinking cognitive, you know, how smart you are, what you've learned. Uh it's not about the what you feel, your emotions, your preferences. Um, and there are a lot of affective assessments, you know, Myers Briggs, predictive index print in the Coach World print is pretty pretty big. Both of those things are super important. Those are the three very big broad parts of the human mind, if you think about it, the thinking, feeling, and doing parts of the mind. So those are really important. And we've talked about those kind of our whole lives. Those have been measured for a long time, you know, with different cognitive intelligence tests and different personality tests. But the this cognitive part of the mind, the doing part, is the way we take action. So it's if when you're left to your own devices, we all have a pattern for the way we tackle a problem or take action. And that's really what we're measuring. So that's why it's different and then why it's super helpful to understand. It's part of the mix.

Fact Finder And How We Research

David Kolbe 2:10

So that you, and because it's instinctive, it doesn't really change over time. So it's things you can count on. So, Nick, I'll I'll pick on you here for a second with your fact finder. And this is actually the same for Josh. Both of you, I guess I can pick on both of you. You guys are both sevens and FactFinder. I'm an eight. So we're really similar. What that means in FactFinder is we all initiate the problem-solving process by getting information, doing research, becoming an expert. If somebody asks us a question and we don't already know the answer, we don't guess. We get the answer. Or if we have to guess, maybe we can give it in bounds. Like, well, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure it's between this and this from what I've looked at already. Like that's the kind of answer you're gonna get from an initiating, what we call initiating fact finder. If somebody were a two or one or something, so on the other end of the spectrum and fact finder, and you ask them to guess, they'll give you, yeah, they don't need to know. Oh, I think it's about this. You know, they'll just kind of tell you. Um, they also share, they they tend to give less of a justification and fewer details. They focus in on one or two key things rather than people like us would do more and more and more. Hey, how's the weather in Phoenix, David? Oh, you know, it's it's really interesting. It's gonna be hot today, but I'm an eight in fact finder. It's hard for me to stop. I you ask me a question, I'm gonna give you a bunch of information.

Follow-Through Plans And Shortcuts

Eric Brown 3:35

I am the exact same way. That's the fact finder, that's the first one. And then follow through is the second number. You've got a two in follow-through, David. I'm relatively uh energy-wise uh a lower with a four. Uh, we've got Jen with a five, Josh with a six, and Nick also with a four. So how would how would that follow-through come in?

David Kolbe 3:58

Yeah, follow-through is how we deal with systems, structure, organization. So that four, five, and six, that mid-range, it's really the bridge between those extremes. So the extremes, I described the extremes and fact finder, the extremes and follow-through on the one end are people, the sevens, eights, nines, tens, they really initiate, create systems and structure. So you you put that kind of person into a really open-ended situation. They look for patterns, they come up with a plan and a system, and then they stick with it. That's why it's called the follow-through. They follow that plan through to the end, they drive for closure. People on the other end of the spectrum, like me, find shortcuts. Like, hey, if there's no plan, great. That's really natural for me. I operate without a plan most of the time. If I'm supposed to follow a plan, I usually try to find shortcuts. Oh, I've gotten through the first four steps. Can I skip a couple? Jump to the end. Neither one is better or worse. There are times when my approach is kind of more helpful in a given situation. But, you know, if you want a safety engineer for the nuclear power plant, you probably don't want me in that role. You don't want me skipping steps. There's a plan, there's a reason for it. So it's not better or worse in general, but yes, in a given situation. So with you guys and your accommodating strength in follow-through, you guys really prevent bureaucracy from happening sometimes. I mean, you're not all the way on the end where with me, like I push back against bureaucracy. You kind of stop the plan from being overwhelming. You'll find instances where, hey, maybe we can cut a couple of these steps out. Maybe we can put a couple in, and you'll you'll even see a little differences. Like Josh has a six. So of the four of you, I would think he's most likely to check in, like, hey, I think we have a plan for this. Where are we in it? Let's get back to that. He isn't necessarily stopping everything all the time and creating one, but he's the most likely to refer back to it. I'm seeing some nods.

Nick Mellem 5:59

That is very spot on. He does do that a lot.

Jen Lotze 6:02

And Josh and I are both sixes. We we kind of roll the same way. So when we meet, it's kind of like we're always like lockstep with our plans and our process. And and Eric, on the other hand, would be like, well, the plan just goes out. He just said this to me yesterday. The plan goes out the window once we are in the middle of an incident. So, you know, and I'm like, Yep, yep. Sure.

David Kolbe 6:22

You're thinking, how about instead of throwing it out the window, we maybe just tweak it a bit?

Jen Lotze 6:28

Maybe reflect on it. I don't know.

Eric Brown 6:30

It's the Mike Tyson quote, right? The best laid plans go out the window as soon as you get hit in the face. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, I think is the quote.

Jen Lotze 6:38

You still need to know the plan. See, this is this is our Colby's fighting each other.

David Kolbe 6:43

But see, one of the great things about Colby is when you get those results, and you guys are you're different, but the differences are not extreme. You see it a lot when the differences are really big. And like like, let's just think about this plan thing. And I'll use actually my wife and I are pretty far apart. Um, I'm a two and she's a seven. So she's very much the systematic, structured plan person. If we didn't understand that this is just a difference in who we are, she's actually said to me, if I didn't know this about you, I'd want to kill you. And she probably still does sometimes, but she understands that I don't, when I don't follow her plan or when I mess up her system, it's not because I don't care. It's because it's just who I am. Now, because I care, and this is, I mean, I'm talking about a personal relationship, but the same thing is true at work. Look, I'm a two in follow-through, so I will find shortcuts. I don't naturally refer back to a plan, let alone create one in a new situation. But when I know, kind of using either my intelligence or my affect, like I care, that's the affective part. If you know and you care that the plan is important, you can uh follow it. You can, you know, check back in with it. I can acknowledge to my wife, if nothing else, oh wow, her name is Pam. Like, Pam, I'm sorry, I know I messed up the plan. Really, that wasn't on purpose, and I'll get back to it. And we and I'm also smart enough. Again, I'm smart enough and I care enough to understand which are the things that are really important to her. So it it drains me of energy if I'm always planned and structured and systematic. So she understands that. So she doesn't overly plan me and our lives together. But I also know, look, some of those things I really, because I care, I'm gonna buckle down and follow some of those things. Not all of them, but I know the important ones. And again, same thing at work when you know, hey, the plan's really important. So, and one of the ways you can do that, so you know, getting back to your guys' dynamic, um, you know, if you know that it's the time that you really should follow that plan you created, you empower Josh. You say, Josh, you know what? I know I'm not the one that's likely to check back in and follow that plan. So it's you, man. We're counting on you. And when I push back and tell you forget about it, we should just throw it out. I need you to push back on me sometimes. Um, and I'll and and the commitment then is I'm gonna listen to you. Even though it isn't natural for me, that's kind of like ringing the bell and bringing me back to reality. Okay, yeah, I know I was doing that. Maybe I need to step back and Josh needs to step forward. So that's just one example of how knowing this, you can change the way you operate as a unit.

Jen Lotze 9:32

Well, I think like a Colby really hits on like by default what you do, right? Like it's just like it's just your your your native reaction. And so I think what we do so often, you know, we're all part of these really robust teams and all these different environments and big projects. And I think knowing these elements of my Colby versus Eric's versus Josh versus Nick's, whoever, like it allows me to take my default, which is, you know, I like structure, but I also am not super rigid in it. Um it allows me to take those strengths, apply them to whatever we're doing, but then also know that like Eric is going to come in and be like, plan what you know, I don't know what you're talking about. Um, but like I can I can use that because he's going to bring in elements of a response that I might not have thought of because we just think so differently, and our defaults are different when we're responding to an incident. I do a lot of tabletop exercises, so that's just where my brain goes. I was in one yesterday, and and his default in mind being so different and how we respond can be really helpful.

David Kolbe 10:32

Oh, absolutely. We need what we've seen over and over again in doing research in businesses and universities is exactly what you said. We need these differences. All things being equal, the teams that have a blend of Colby results of cognitive strengths do better than teams where there's just they kind of clone each other. So if you guys were all the same in any of the things that we measure, that actually becomes a problem. And the interesting thing is teams usually don't feel that problem because it seems like, hey, we're all on the same page in terms of the way we operate. So you develop these blind spots. Like, here's one thing that happens a lot if you get a team of initiating fact finders, um, ask more questions, do more research. Hey, what's wrong with getting more information so we can be better informed? Well, here's the thing that's wrong. You're well enough informed, and now you're not moving forward because you're doing these other things. But the team that everybody is like that, it feels pretty good when it's happening, right up until they realize, oh, we're a week past our deadline and we still haven't gotten halfway done. Right. Like, then it's pretty painful.

Jen Lotze 11:42

That's where I think your quick start is really helpful, right? Like having a quick start along at Backfinder is really helpful because Eric will be like, let's go. Let's let's go. And I'm like, let me get just a little bit more. And the two of us together, like, he shortens my window, I lengthen his a little bit so we can meet in the middle. And I think that's that's like the perfect,

Quick Start Risk And Experimenting

Jen Lotze 12:00

the perfect way to solution.

Eric Brown 12:02

The quick quick start, that's the third one. And and that'll be interesting to hear about yours, David, because you have high fact finder and a higher quick start too. So some of that might be in contention at some times.

David Kolbe 12:13

Yeah, it is. Sometimes I do feel like those compete a little bit. So quick start is how we deal with uh risk, the unknowns experimenting. So, Eric, on your team, you are the most kind of what Jen is describing. You're the most out there in terms of, hey, let's just try it, let's move forward. I don't need to know what's gonna happen. We can just take that risk, operate in an unknown environment, and and hey, we'll learn from it. So it's different than the planning. Like, and and look, you're not the planner follow-through either, but it's possible to be an initiating follow-through and an initiating quick start. There, what you'd see is, oh, I'm gonna have a plan and a system for the experimentation I do. Um, but then you know I get to the experiment and it truly is novel and we've never done it. But with the quick start, the innovative quick start or the initiating quick start, it is really about pushing forward and just trying something out and then learning from it. And if it doesn't go the right way, hey, that's all right. The other end of the spectrum, and none of us here are all the way at the other end of the spectrum. Um, Jen and Nick, you guys are fours, so you're toward that end, but still more in the middle. But the other end is really somebody who stabilizes, they see what works and they stick with it. They prevent chaos from even beginning because it's, you know, we don't need to experiment on that. We've already done it. We know what works. So they might, you know, if they do it a little bit, they would more tweak it. Hey, let's just let's do a little experimenting on maybe this one part. And the three others, so Eric, not you, but the three others of you, that's probably a bit of the role you play. So maybe sometimes reining in or channeling Eric's initiating quick start where necessary.

Joshua Schmidt 13:55

Well, the thing I was talking to Nick about before uh we started this today is um some of these are are kind of it's like putting on a new sh new shirt or a new pair of socks. It feels a little uncomfortable at first because I don't always see myself the way that some of these assessments break things down for me. And and I was sharing with Nick um this uh Jihari window. Have you heard of that, David? Yeah. I'll just share it on the screen here really quick because I think it's a kind of cool concept that really fits in this Kobe index. Is it's that you know, the areas that you know about yourself, others know your blind spots, hidden areas that no one knows, and then the unknown. And um sometimes we really don't know these things about ourselves because we have this idea of ourselves that and we can't really always see what other people uh uh see in us. So I think that was a big um eye-opener for me.

David Kolbe 14:43

Yeah, and so what we hope Colby does is we we make more of you known to both yourself and to others. And then with that information, it becomes easier to deal with those times where you are really different, but it's necessary and helpful. Because that's part of the problem is when you, whether it's you not understanding yourself or the other person not understanding you, it you misidentify what the problem is. So that's when I was talking about my wife, where she might think, because I'm different if I mess up her system, she might think, well, that's because David doesn't care. Well, no, that's not the issue. But if you start having, if you start trying to fix the problem like that you've misidentified, you're never gonna get to the bottom of it. Same thing if, and we see this in business all the time. People think, well, it's because they don't know what they need to know. We they don't have kind of basically the cognitive skills where we haven't trained them or taught them. Oh, I'll just train them on how important systems are, and then magically they will become an initiating follow-through. Like, no, they won't. No. Like you can show them how important the systems are and then tell them, I know this is not natural for you. So here are some tips and techniques for getting yourself to do it that way because it's important and spotting which are the important systems and you know which are maybe less important. But yeah, by narrowing

Implementer Hands-On Problem Solving

David Kolbe 16:05

what is unknown, you get to better solutions.

Eric Brown 16:08

And then the last number, David, the implementer. You and I are both.

David Kolbe 16:12

If I could go back and change the name, I would do it on this one because people hear implementer and they think it's more like the follow-through, like, oh, it's how you implement things as and carry them out. But it's not, it's about the way we deal with the physical world, the tactile, tangible, three-dimensional realm of problem solving. So initiating follow-throughs are literally hands-on. They build and construct solutions. So when they, as you were saying, Jen, it's kind of that default. Their default is let me build it, let me show it to you physically, not just talk about it, not put it on a screen or write up a paper, but I'm gonna go fix it for you. The other end of the spectrum is somebody who their default is I'm gonna imagine, I will talk about it and think about it and show it to you, you know, on a screen or in writing rather than uh physically get it. An example I can give you, I was working with a company and their CFO uh was an initiating implementer. Now keep in mind, CFOs, most of the time, that's not a really physical job. I mean, you're dealing with spreadsheets and numbers and data. He was giving a presentation, and I thought this was such an interesting way to see his implementer come out. He was talking about where this company, they were a large uh property development company, and he was talking about where they were gonna get their financing for this next multi, multi, multi-million dollar project. His presentation, he literally built a 100-story tall building to show where each percent of financing was gonna come for that project. Now, did he need to do that? Well, the audience didn't need him to, but it was more engaging because it was different. But he needs to physically build things. Another client that I work with, an estate planning attorney, really good estate planning attorney, but again, not the kind of job where you usually get to use your hands. And I just flat out asked him, how have you been doing this job for so long? Because it's you don't get to use your implementer very much, do you? And he said, No, no, no, I really don't. I keep myself sane because I build furniture. And if I could make more money building furniture, that's what I would do for a living. But instead, he had been doing the lawyer thing long enough, he could take enough time off. He had his free days and he turned so many of his free days into building furniture and going around the country to furniture shows and selling his furniture. So, but it was important to him. Like, and he flat out said if he didn't have that as an outlet, he would have burnt out and quit the law a long time ago.

Jen Lotze 18:47

We have one person on our team, his name is Cam, and I think he's a nine uh in implementer. And so, whenever, and he's like one of our lead security engineers. And so for him, he talks about you know solving problems. Like he tests, you know, hypotheses and he will investigate until he can get to the bottom of it. And so, wow, even though that's digital, for him, like that is just what he does. And so he's oftentimes our like handy cam is in my head what I call him. And so when he's trying to put something together, I'll say, Oh, Cam, you're yellow is really showing. The first time I said that, he was like, I don't what wait, what? What is showing? And I was like, No, no, no, you're yellow, like your your implementer is showing right now. And so it's fun to be able to kind of know those things about your peers. And they do look a little different. Like he's not like a builder per se, but like he's building in these virtual spaces to solve problems and tinker away and and and just how in our field that looks a little different, but he gets to do that all the time. That's his favorite work to do is solve a problem.

Eric Brown 19:46

And he's also the one that likes to hang the whiteboards around.

Jen Lotze 19:49

He loves to hang the whiteboard. So if you need someone to hang your whiteboard, you call Cam. He'll come running with his drill.

David Kolbe 19:54

I mean, I was gonna say we often see people like that in the office environment where they don't need to hang the whiteboards or clear the paper jam in the copier or what, but they're the ones who do it. And sometimes you think, wow, we pay you way too much to be doing that, but they need that as an outlet. My guess is he also, when he goes home, he's got he is serious about some kind of physical hobby. He doesn't just do it to turn his brain off, like he's serious about whatever it might be building stuff. Does Mario Kart count? I would also think in terms of security, when he can, he also uh gets connected to the physical part of data security. Like what is the physical security around your co-location facility? He'd want to inspect it. He'd want to go to the colo facility, he'd want to see the racks, the way they're built, the wiring of the servers would be important to him. He'd need to see the connections and make sure they're secure so that they're not just gonna get bumped and pop out. Yep. Which, like, is really basic. It's kind of obvious, but most people would just put it on a checklist. He'd really want to go touch it. Sure.

Jen Lotze 21:04

Didn't you just more we did just do that? So we did a network refresh and it was like over a weekend, over midnight, two in the morning. And you know, he would just like stand back in the closet and look at his cabling and be like, mm-hmm, that looks good. Um, and and it's just it's so fun because for me, I'm like, I want to write up all the communication. I want to make sure people feel seen and heard and that they know what what's happening. And he's like, look at my cabling. It's beautiful. And it is a thing of beauty.

Joshua Schmidt 21:31

Yeah, it is. He hasn't touched my cables in here yet. Don't

Using Kolbe For Teams And Hiring

Joshua Schmidt 21:35

tempt him with a good time.

Eric Brown 21:36

He hasn't done any cable management in the studio. And David, there's a there's a Colby process, and we should tell people how to maybe access Colby if they're interested for their teams or even individually, families, what have you, that how they could they go through the process. But there's also different Colbys, like there's the A to A, there's the A to C, where um people could use it when they're bringing new team members on board, right?

David Kolbe 22:00

Yeah, so we're so number one, we're really mission driven. Our our mission is to help people understand themselves so they can achieve the things they care about. And the first step of that is just that understanding, getting your Colby a result. But if it just stops there, honestly, we feel like we haven't achieved our mission. We we've helped. And look, if I could help everybody in the world in just that way, yeah, that would be a huge win. But it's going to that next level. So you mentioned the A-to-A. That's a it's a report, and that's too dry a way to put it. It's it's information that helps you understand how two of you work together and operate and gives tips for how you can avoid problems and do better. So when we talked about when you're really different, how important that is because you complement each other, it does come with the downside of yeah, but that can turn into conflict. So here's how you avoid that. So that A-A report looks at that information and gives really easy to understand, easy to put into practice uh solutions, really advice and solutions for how to how to handle that. As I mentioned, there's nothing, there's no Colby result that is better or worse in general than any other Colby result. It's just who you are. But they do fit better in certain positions. So the right fit process and then the results that you get from it tell you, hey, who's likely to be a better hire for a particular role? So it analyzes what's the role you're filling and who are the people you're considering putting in that role. And if it's, you know, like me in that nuclear safety engineer role, it's going to say, you know what, David with his two in follow-through, not a great fit for a role that really looks more like a 7, 8, 9 and follow-through, where it's all about systems and structure and not taking shortcuts. So it'll tell you that ahead of time so that you can weed out the candidates who are least likely to be successful in a role. It doesn't tell you, oh, this person is for sure going to be successful because let's say with that engineering role, if I'm a really lousy engineer, you also don't want me in that role, but it's not because of my Colby result. I could look perfect from a Colby result standpoint, but you still need to know that other stuff. Um, and then I think the last big set of applications that we have are all kinds of team analysis and reports. So we have a suite of software called Team Tactics, and subscribers who use that take groups like you, and it can be, you know, it's really meant for teams that work interactively together, not just teams that report to each other but don't actually work to solve problems. But it looks at those teams and says, okay, here's how you guys fit together. Uh, here's maybe what you, if you're going to add new people, here's maybe what you should look to add. And then also talks just like that A to A, where it's a one-to-one relationship. It looks at the entire team and says, here are the potential pitfalls for you guys, and here's how to avoid them or work around them.

Nick Mellem 24:58

Yeah, I know it's really helped uh Josh and I specifically because we're both seven fact finders and we work together a lot. And I think before we did this, there might have been times where we might slow each other down a little bit because we, hey, we're trying to look into this too much. We're taking too much time to look into this, but now we can actually pull back and we'll stop ourselves from that activity, right? And speed ourselves up because we're no the two of us paired together might have slowed each other down, which is not a problem anymore. So really move that blocker for us.

David Kolbe 25:27

Well, I love that. That's great to hear. See, you're helping me achieve my mission by doing stuff like that.

Nick Mellem 25:32

Yeah, it's been great.

David Kolbe 25:34

Um, and Nick, you were about to ask, how do people hear about it? I mean, the most straightforward way is uh Colby.com, K-O-L-B-E.com. You can go there and get all of our contact information, drop us a note. You know, there's their forms if you have requests. Um, my email is dkolby at colby.com, so you can get in touch with me. Um, all kinds of information

Building AI Tools With Privacy

David Kolbe 25:55

on the website, though. That's probably the best place to start.

Eric Brown 25:57

And where are you guys going next, David? What's the future looking like?

David Kolbe 26:01

Well, like lots of people these days, we gotta be dealing with AI. So for us on many different levels, like everybody else, what are the ways we're gonna use it to become more efficient to improve our internal systems? Uh, but I think more importantly, for what we've been talking about is we're developing AI interfaces and solutions so that people can use that uh in a more dynamic and fluid way rather than what have been more static. I mean, they've been great reports and insight and value that we deliver that way, but they are admittedly more static, where it's, hey, we think we know the questions that are asked most often. Here's what we can tell you about those things. Well, AI is going to help us give our clients ways to interact with the knowledge and the information that's embedded in all those Colby results and all the research that we've already done. Um, but let them ask questions in the way that they want to ask them and get those results. All kinds of challenges with that. Um, you know, all of the data security and privacy stuff around AI.

Jen Lotze 27:05

So glad you're planning for that up front. Like if that's just the thing that goes through mind, I'm like, oh my gosh, please say you love security. Uh so yay, go you.

David Kolbe 27:13

You're one of the people always love it. I just have to admit, because the some of it's the initiating quick start and me is like, oh, but I have all these ideas and let's just do it. And frankly, a lot of our smaller business clients, we have tons of like think of a strategic coach uh universe kinds of clients. So many of those people are also coming up with, oh, I just wanted to do this. Yeah. And they don't think about security first. And sometimes not in a bad way, but just in a, hey, they they don't need to be super private with their information. But we also have financial service industry, like huge international financial service industry, or healthcare industry, or defense industry clients, where you can't let an AI system touch their data without permission. And they're, and by the way, they're not going to give permission.

Jen Lotze 28:00

No, they're not.

David Kolbe 28:01

So, yeah, we that's one of the challenges of developing these new systems is we need to make them open and flexible and interactive and yet very tight, you know, and give users options for do you even want to let this anywhere near your data that we're housing for you? So it makes it a fun challenge. And yeah, that's said a little bit euphemistically, but it is honestly is an intellectual project. It does make it fun.

Jen Lotze 28:26

More people could benefit from hearing exactly what you said so succinctly, not being a cyber, you know, like we're cybersecurity junkies, like we live in this space. But hearing you say that, like I might just take that and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it over and over again because like you said stated it so succinctly, and it's so critical to the success of implementing anything new, right? Thinking about that security first mindset. So, oh my gosh, you just made me so happy.

David Kolbe 28:53

Oh, good.

Eric Brown 28:55

It's interesting too to with AI, you can take, you know, say I was gonna write you an email, David, and and I know your Colby score, you're 8273, I could say craft an email to somebody that is an 8273 in a way that might resonate with them. So around that data privacy, if that were exposed and that data were were were leaked into the public domain of what people's scores were, that could be used against people in a way that would potentially influence them in buying decisions or what have you.

David Kolbe 29:30

Yeah, and that's one of the areas where with data security and and really it's it's more privacy. You know, those things are very, very closely connected. But um yeah, not everybody wants to share their Colby result. I'm perfectly happy for the world to know my result. And my initial mindset is always, oh, why wouldn't everybody want this out there? But not everybody does. Sure. Um so we need to give our users the ability to toggle that on and off and you know, protect it where they want to protect it. But um, but that's also the kind of thing that we're working on developing internally to have expert agents that are built that our users can subscribe to that'll help with things like, hey, if this is the somebody in my company, so with permission, you know, we know all these results. Will you help me draft that email? Or I'm going into a meeting with them, give me some quick reminders about the best way to communicate with Eric in that meeting about, you know, maybe it's a difficult situation, maybe it is trying to sell you on something. Hey, I want to get him on board with my idea, some our next big project. Um, what are some quick reminders that I should think of with Eric? Um yeah, and we haven't had those things built in that way before. We've some of it is there, and that's where we're using AI to capture the intelligence that we've already built. But as you guys also know, with AI, part of the challenge is, and this is from a business model standpoint, what level of accuracy, for lack of a better word, are are we gonna be okay with? Before it was like, man, it had to be 99 point whatever. We wanted to minimize any chance. Well, now AI does still hallucinate some. And even when it doesn't hallucinate, it misses some of the really fine nuances, and we're working to make it get better. But I think the best way to describe it is the difference between conitive strengths, the way we take action, and affective strengths, our preferences and values. It doesn't always use language that separates those two out enough. So we have to decide okay, is 96% you know, score, is that good enough for us to release to the world? And I think the answer to that from a business model standpoint is, and some of this is very personal to me, I have to be okay with releasing products that are at a slightly lower standard with full disclosure to our clients. Hey, here's the deal. We think this is a really good, strong product, but here are the caveats, and you really should involve humans in these different steps. And if it doesn't sound right, maybe push back or contact us. So we're in the midst of

Patterns In Data And Entrepreneurs

David Kolbe 32:10

working all that out.

Eric Brown 32:11

And you guys are sitting on a lot of data, right? Which is really, I would have trouble like not playing with the data and looking for themes of like, oh, okay, you know, cat owners like Nick, right? Oh, cat owners, you know, and and how do you group this together? I I know just walking around coach, people have their four numbers, and the numbers seem to be similar. So it's like, okay, entrepreneurs seem to have these similar type of numbers, and not everybody, but I bet you could just see some awesome themes in the thousands of scores that you've done over time.

David Kolbe 32:45

Yeah. You're absolutely right. There are themes. I love the way you put it. It's not that every entrepreneur is going to look the same way, and I'll talk about the differences, but I think using that as a starting point, what we do see is people who really are entrepreneurs in the most classic sense, where they start something kind of from scratch, tend to lean more toward the initiating quick start. Um, they might back that up with kind of mid-range or, you know, maybe initiating fact finder. But so using me as an example, I lead with my fact finder, with my data gathering, you know, become an expert. Let's look back at history, let's look at the data and spreadsheets. That's not the classic typical fact finder or quick entrepreneur. The entrepreneur is more that quick start side of me that's like, hey, I have an idea, let's try it out, let's go for it, let's experiment. Um, so that's yeah, that's the trend. But let me give you an example of one, and we don't have tons of data on this, but some of the data that we do have points toward it franchise operators. So they're entrepreneurs, like they're starting a store from the ground up, but they plug into an existing system and structure. So we see those entrepreneurs as being a little more initiating follow-through because it's not yet, it's like, hey, I want to start a business. I'm taking the financial risk, I'm sinking a lot of money into it, but they they plug into that system that's already there. And they maybe also do a lot of research. Hey, which franchise is the best one offers the best financial opportunity.

Eric Brown 34:22

Have you thought about writing a book with with some of these things? Because uh you grew up in this, you left, you've got some great outside experience, and then you came back to run it. So I'm sure you've got a lot of great insights

Do More More Naturally In Leadership

Eric Brown 34:35

from a business perspective that could really help people.

David Kolbe 34:38

Yeah. So I I co-wrote with Amy Brewski, the president of the company, uh Do More More Naturally. So that's really all about how to take this stuff and use it. It focuses on business uh applications, talks a little bit about personal stuff, but really focuses on business. And it's really about kind of how you use it yourself. So the do more more naturally concept is when you work with your strengths rather than against them, you can accomplish more and use less energy to get there. If it's if it takes less time and less energy, then you've got that time and energy left over for something else. So if you, you know, if it's business stuff, great, that project's done. Now I can move on to the next thing. But it also might be personal. Great. The end of the day at work has come, and now I have energy to do the things that I love to do personally, spending time with my wife, doing my hobbies, whatever that might be. Um so yeah, that's that's that book. Thank you for asking about it.

Joshua Schmidt 35:31

We're big book lovers around. We are.

Jen Lotze 35:33

I think we all just like Google this.

Joshua Schmidt 35:35

We have another reading list uh edition.

Jen Lotze 35:38

And something that you hit on that I really appreciate. Um, so Eric will always ask the question, like, but does this work fill your cup? And so I think something that happens at IT Audit Labs a lot that I really appreciate is we try to align the work with those passion areas so that then the things that we love to do naturally, whether it's in our jobs or outside of our jobs, like I just like helping people. Like that's my thing. I love helping because I just I was a teacher in my past life, so I don't know how to be any other way. And so, like, as a leader, he understands that and wants to align our skills and our passions with the work that we get to do. And so I think what you were talking about, and I'm excited to read the book, I think really hits hard on that. And so I think as we think about these entrepreneurs or as leaders of teams, um, a question I would have is like what are some of those things that our leaders need to look for or encourage within those teams to to really like lead well and let people really shine within their unique abilities or their talents? Like I don't know if that makes sense.

David Kolbe 36:43

Oh, it absolutely makes sense. So one, I mean, I I would it's a little self-serving, but it's obvious and true. I hope everybody gets Kobe results for those people because it is easier to understand great, what's the way Jen operates naturally? It's just the first step, though. Then a leader needs to understand, okay, great, now I know this information. How do I make that happen in a productive way? So when you think about work and teams and projects that need to get done, it's great to say, and we talk about this in the book, it's great to say, hey, set Jen loose so that she can do everything the way that's most natural for her. And most of the time that's great. But the reality of the world is that there are times when that's not going to work. You need to work against your grain. So the leader has to figure out how I can blend those two and how can I move things more toward giving each person on the team than in the company the ability to operate in a way that works for them while also understanding they're operating in the system with things that need to get done. So I always tell leaders, don't compromise on your expectations. This is not, and people mishear this sometimes. They're like, oh, you're just talking about finding the easiest path. And I believe in hard work. And no, it's not about being easy, it's about setting people up for success. Yeah. Set a high goal. Like, we want to change the world. Great. If you want to change the world, you better make it as easy as possible to achieve that because that's the big goal. So, and that's where you learn the grit and determination and the value of hard work and all that stuff. It's not, oh, let's set this big goal and now make it virtually impossible to achieve. That just burns people out. It pisses people off, and they know when it's happening. And usually we don't do it on purpose, but it just happens. And then if you have this leader mindset of, oh, you're just afraid of challenges, like, no leader, it's not that I'm afraid of challenges. It's you're not doing a very good job of making it so that I can achieve what you're pointing us all toward. So, but I did say it's a balance because the real world is we all have to just suck it up sometimes and do things that don't fit us. But if that's what we're doing all the time, it's not a good, not a good setup.

Eric Brown 38:56

I I I I like kind of what uh Dr. Ben Hardy said in the science of scaling, where one thing that you can do is you can set these really big goals and then you can reduce the timeline to get there. And the only way that you're going to achieve that goal is you have to think differently. And it's kind of going back to to Dan's and and and uh the book he wrote with uh Dr. Ben Hardy of 10x is easier than 2x, where you you can get to 2x by just working harder, but you can't get to 10x by working harder. You have to just change the way that you're thinking and you're approaching things. So kind of combining both of the the what what effectively works for people and how they work in their comfort zone, but how they work in a team in order to achieve those goals. I I think you can do some great things.

Jen Lotze 39:42

And I think that's why hiring is so important, particularly as a leader. Like a lot of leaders you see, they hire themselves over and over and over again, right? Their team is very homogenous. It looks like them as the leader and they don't recognize that they are hiring themselves over and over again. And I think those really strong teams, they hire people who are unlike themselves, right? Like it's a really diverse team. Like if you look at our team, we are very diverse. We have very different interests and and our defaults are very different, but it's what makes us like push. And so it's it's just it's really interesting to watch.

Eric Brown 40:19

We even allowed a couple of two quick starts on the team here, Jen.

Jen Lotze 40:24

It hurts. It

Wonderlic Origins And Closing Notes

Jen Lotze 40:25

hurts my my like my sevens and and no comment.

Nick Mellem 40:30

No comment from the marketing department. I was thinking about American football and how they take the wonder lick test before the draft or the combine, which is a similar subset. But then, David, I found that your grandfather started the wonder lick. And I thought that was really cool, the connection there that it's falling down. I had no idea until I was researching this that um Kathy's father, your mother, was the uh, you know, started the Wonder Lick test.

David Kolbe 40:56

Yeah, and and that's part of why she got into what she got into. She would describe how she would talk to her dad about, well, hey, dad, you know, this is great, but we all know really smart, motivated people who don't fit in a job or they were doing great and then they get promoted and now they're not so great, even though they're still super smart and they're passionate and you know committed and all that stuff. And she would say, Well, what else is it? And he'd say, Look, honey, I I do my thing. Like, if you want to figure that out, go figure that out. So yeah, the Wonder Lick is a really good instrument for um identifying people's, and I think it's ironic that it's best known for being used by the NFL because I think it's really best suited for a more office kind of environment. I'm not sure how great it is at figuring out who's gonna be a better you know linebacker. Um, but yeah, it's they used it for years. They still do, although they don't require it of draftees anymore. Sure.

Jen Lotze 41:56

I would be a great linebacker, Eric. Don't you think? I mean, I could take someone out of the way. Small but mighty. Oh, okay. Eric, you want to close us up today?

Eric Brown 42:06

Let's close it up. Sure. David, awesome having you on. And it's really been great, like living with Colby for the last three years or so. And we just enjoyed using uh the our Colby scores, talking about them and integrating them into our team. So really appreciate you coming on and and and thanks for explaining it in detail. And Josh, what do we do after this? We we kind of clean this up, we put it back out in a couple of weeks.

Joshua Schmidt 42:31

So this is gonna be live. We also are gonna have the audio and video version out in a couple of weeks. We'll definitely let you know, David, and uh feel free to share it with your colleagues, your friends, and your peers. Also, some shorts on YouTube. You can find it at us wherever you uh stream your podcasts, YouTube, uh Spotify, and Apple's gonna be hosting videos shortly.

Jen Lotze 42:48

So don't forget about Zip Cyber. It's the fun. It's the fun part of IT Audit Labs.

Joshua Schmidt 42:56

Yeah. So once again, David, stay in touch. Um, get David's book and uh read that. Yeah, it's on our reading.

Jen Lotze 43:03

Take your Colby.

Joshua Schmidt 43:04

Take your Colby.

David Kolbe 43:05

Thanks. It's been great. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to use Colby internally and have me on. Yeah.

Jen Lotze 43:12

Thank you.

Joshua Schmidt 43:13

Thanks, David. You've been listening to the audit presented by IT Audit Labs. I'm your co host and producer, Joshua Schmidt. Today we've been joined by David Kobe of Kobe Corp. We have Nick Mellum and Eric Brown and uh Jen Lotzi here in the studio today. Thanks for listening. Please like, share, and subscribe, and we'll see you in the next one.

Eric Brown 43:30

You have been listening to the audit presented by IT Audit Labs. We are experts at assessing risk and compliance while providing administrative and technical controls to improve our clients' data security. Our threat assessments find the soft spots before the bad guys do, identifying likelihood and impact, or all our security control assessments rank the level of maturity relative to the size of your organization. Thanks to our devoted listeners and followers, as well as our producer, Joshua J. Schmidt, and our audio video editor, Cameron Hill. You can stay up to date on the latest cybersecurity topics by giving us a like and a follow on our socials, and subscribing to this podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you source your security content.